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	<title>Comments on: Digital Typography and @font-face</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bluebones.net/2006/10/digital-typography-and-font-face/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bluebones.net/2006/10/digital-typography-and-font-face/</link>
	<description>Adventures in Computer Programming</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<item>
		<title>By: Thomas David Baker</title>
		<link>http://bluebones.net/2006/10/digital-typography-and-font-face/#comment-24398</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas David Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluebones.net/2006/10/digital-typography-and-font-face/#comment-24398</guid>
		<description>Woah!  &lt;a href="http://developer.mozilla.org/web-tech/2008/10/14/firefox-31-beta-1-an-overview-of-features-for-web-developers/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Developer notes on Firefox 3.1 Beta&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote cite="http://developer.mozilla.org/web-tech/2008/10/14/firefox-31-beta-1-an-overview-of-features-for-web-developers/"&gt;
@font-face

One of our most widely-request features is to add support for the CSS @font-face property. This property allows you to specify a true type font file that includes a specific font you want to use to render a web page. This is important not only for designers to get more consistent formatting and layout, but is also important to web developers for non-english websites who often have users that may or may not have access to high-quality fonts. Beta 1 includes support for @font-face.



Right now the fonts must be located at the same origin as the page that includes it.

@font-face support is implemented for Windows and Mac, but not for Linux. Linux support is underway and will be done by Firefox 3.1 final.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woah!  <a href="http://developer.mozilla.org/web-tech/2008/10/14/firefox-31-beta-1-an-overview-of-features-for-web-developers/" rel="nofollow">Developer notes on Firefox 3.1 Beta</a>:</p>
<blockquote cite="http://developer.mozilla.org/web-tech/2008/10/14/firefox-31-beta-1-an-overview-of-features-for-web-developers/"><p>
@font-face</p>
<p>One of our most widely-request features is to add support for the CSS @font-face property. This property allows you to specify a true type font file that includes a specific font you want to use to render a web page. This is important not only for designers to get more consistent formatting and layout, but is also important to web developers for non-english websites who often have users that may or may not have access to high-quality fonts. Beta 1 includes support for @font-face.</p>
<p>Right now the fonts must be located at the same origin as the page that includes it.</p>
<p>@font-face support is implemented for Windows and Mac, but not for Linux. Linux support is underway and will be done by Firefox 3.1 final.
</p></blockquote>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: your favorite</title>
		<link>http://bluebones.net/2006/10/digital-typography-and-font-face/#comment-23854</link>
		<dc:creator>your favorite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 06:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluebones.net/2006/10/digital-typography-and-font-face/#comment-23854</guid>
		<description>Want a font on your site more than any other? Then demand it. Talk starts conversations, fires start riots.

"If you use @, they will come..."

In fact, mid-2008, I think a few browsers are already over it, and supporting technology in communications, corporations be damned.

The revolution will not be Profitablized.~

(Profitablized is a trademark of the bastards that made "Profitablized" remotely amusing. Oh, wait, thats not so funny.insert tilde after period, guess connotation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Want a font on your site more than any other? Then demand it. Talk starts conversations, fires start riots.</p>
<p>&#8220;If you use @, they will come&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>In fact, mid-2008, I think a few browsers are already over it, and supporting technology in communications, corporations be damned.</p>
<p>The revolution will not be Profitablized.~</p>
<p>(Profitablized is a trademark of the bastards that made &#8220;Profitablized&#8221; remotely amusing. Oh, wait, thats not so funny.insert tilde after period, guess connotation.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: elliottcable</title>
		<link>http://bluebones.net/2006/10/digital-typography-and-font-face/#comment-23082</link>
		<dc:creator>elliottcable</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 02:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluebones.net/2006/10/digital-typography-and-font-face/#comment-23082</guid>
		<description>Well, right out of the gate, click my name above - I use @font-face extensively on my site, in various places - my @font-face test page is actually also my &lt;a href="http://elliottcable.name/contact.xhtml" rel="nofollow"&gt;contact page&lt;/a&gt;, there's all sorts of @font-face trickery there. Of course, currently, this will only show up in &lt;a href="http://nightly.webkit.org/" rel="nofollow"&gt;WebKit&lt;/a&gt; (and therefore, &lt;a href="http://www.apple.com/safari/download/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Safari&lt;/a&gt; 3.1). I am a hardcore typophile as well as a sometimes web designer, so I can't express how excited I am to see a chance for astute typographical works to come to the web through @font-face.

For those worried about intellectual property - don't be. This is a technical implementation, to allow better design on the web - it's not meant to be a way for somebody to illegally share your font. If you were a photographer (as I also happen to be) instead of a typographer, somebody could still digitally download your picture (as a JPEG, or whatever format it happens to be in) from a site that &lt;em&gt;has been&lt;/em&gt; allowed to use it by yourself, and then upload it to their server and link it to people if they felt like distributing it without permission. It's not the &#60;img&#62; tag's fault. The same applies to fonts - I could easily upload a font file I don't have the rights to use to my own server, and then distribute it... this has nothing to do with the CSS @font-face feature in and of itself. Now, of course, common implementation of @font-face will cause there to be many, many, many more people uploading fonts they legally bought to their server, without knowing any better than to do so - even though such is illegal. I understand reservations because of that, but it's important to set them aside and move on. Sure, photographers might be a bit happier if there was no &#60;img&#62; tag, right? General people would be much less likely to 'steal' their image and post it on a forum or their little blog or something, not knowing any better than to do so. But did we not implement &#60;img&#62; because of this? No, we have &#60;img&#62;, and it's a central part of the web designer's arsenal. @font-face should, and will, be the same - if we let it. And we should.

Also, to pimp somebody I see as a great corner-stone of the @font-face movement... you all should check out &lt;a href="http://www.josbuivenga.demon.nl" rel="nofollow"&gt;Jos Buivenga&lt;/a&gt;. His work is not only absolutely &lt;em&gt;stunning&lt;/em&gt; and &lt;em&gt;free&lt;/em&gt;, but also (after an extended e-mail exchange  with him by yours truly) released for use on the web with @font-face! I believe his are some of the first typefaces to be specifically so released, and I really hope to see them widely used as CSS @font-face gains better support. Of course, the terms are a bit more restrictive than I'd like (have to link to the font's page from the footer of any page you use the font on), but hell - it's better than absolutely anything else out there (except the bitstream vera fonts, of course, as they're totally open source), so I can't raise any complaints!

To others considering releasing their already-free fonts use for @font-face use - here's my suggestion for use terms. If you want yourself credited, consider requiring your name and the URL to the font or your site be included &lt;em&gt;in the CSS file&lt;/em&gt;, proximal to the @font-face declaration itself. My argument is this - anybody who wants to 'steal', or (if it's legal) 'retrieve' a font they like from a site they're visiting, they aren't going to go digging in their browser cache (do you do so when you see an image you like on a site?). They're going to view the page source, copy the link to the CSS file, and open it separately, thus obtaining the link the browser is using to grab the typeface before rendering. If your information is right above the @font-face declaration in that file, 99% of people interested in the font will be redirected to your page! This is much more reasonable, in my opinion, than requiring a link on the page itself. I don't even include a link to &lt;em&gt;myself&lt;/em&gt; on most of my pages, it's far too much clutter. Maybe some people like fat footers, but most designers (and these are the ones that will be using your typeface, in all likely hood) will be put off by the bloat required for a return link.

tl;dr @font-face is &lt;em&gt;AWESOME&lt;/em&gt;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, right out of the gate, click my name above - I use @font-face extensively on my site, in various places - my @font-face test page is actually also my <a href="http://elliottcable.name/contact.xhtml" rel="nofollow">contact page</a>, there&#8217;s all sorts of @font-face trickery there. Of course, currently, this will only show up in <a href="http://nightly.webkit.org/" rel="nofollow">WebKit</a> (and therefore, <a href="http://www.apple.com/safari/download/" rel="nofollow">Safari</a> 3.1). I am a hardcore typophile as well as a sometimes web designer, so I can&#8217;t express how excited I am to see a chance for astute typographical works to come to the web through @font-face.</p>
<p>For those worried about intellectual property - don&#8217;t be. This is a technical implementation, to allow better design on the web - it&#8217;s not meant to be a way for somebody to illegally share your font. If you were a photographer (as I also happen to be) instead of a typographer, somebody could still digitally download your picture (as a JPEG, or whatever format it happens to be in) from a site that <em>has been</em> allowed to use it by yourself, and then upload it to their server and link it to people if they felt like distributing it without permission. It&#8217;s not the &lt;img&gt; tag&#8217;s fault. The same applies to fonts - I could easily upload a font file I don&#8217;t have the rights to use to my own server, and then distribute it&#8230; this has nothing to do with the CSS @font-face feature in and of itself. Now, of course, common implementation of @font-face will cause there to be many, many, many more people uploading fonts they legally bought to their server, without knowing any better than to do so - even though such is illegal. I understand reservations because of that, but it&#8217;s important to set them aside and move on. Sure, photographers might be a bit happier if there was no &lt;img&gt; tag, right? General people would be much less likely to &#8217;steal&#8217; their image and post it on a forum or their little blog or something, not knowing any better than to do so. But did we not implement &lt;img&gt; because of this? No, we have &lt;img&gt;, and it&#8217;s a central part of the web designer&#8217;s arsenal. @font-face should, and will, be the same - if we let it. And we should.</p>
<p>Also, to pimp somebody I see as a great corner-stone of the @font-face movement&#8230; you all should check out <a href="http://www.josbuivenga.demon.nl" rel="nofollow">Jos Buivenga</a>. His work is not only absolutely <em>stunning</em> and <em>free</em>, but also (after an extended e-mail exchange  with him by yours truly) released for use on the web with @font-face! I believe his are some of the first typefaces to be specifically so released, and I really hope to see them widely used as CSS @font-face gains better support. Of course, the terms are a bit more restrictive than I&#8217;d like (have to link to the font&#8217;s page from the footer of any page you use the font on), but hell - it&#8217;s better than absolutely anything else out there (except the bitstream vera fonts, of course, as they&#8217;re totally open source), so I can&#8217;t raise any complaints!</p>
<p>To others considering releasing their already-free fonts use for @font-face use - here&#8217;s my suggestion for use terms. If you want yourself credited, consider requiring your name and the URL to the font or your site be included <em>in the CSS file</em>, proximal to the @font-face declaration itself. My argument is this - anybody who wants to &#8217;steal&#8217;, or (if it&#8217;s legal) &#8216;retrieve&#8217; a font they like from a site they&#8217;re visiting, they aren&#8217;t going to go digging in their browser cache (do you do so when you see an image you like on a site?). They&#8217;re going to view the page source, copy the link to the CSS file, and open it separately, thus obtaining the link the browser is using to grab the typeface before rendering. If your information is right above the @font-face declaration in that file, 99% of people interested in the font will be redirected to your page! This is much more reasonable, in my opinion, than requiring a link on the page itself. I don&#8217;t even include a link to <em>myself</em> on most of my pages, it&#8217;s far too much clutter. Maybe some people like fat footers, but most designers (and these are the ones that will be using your typeface, in all likely hood) will be put off by the bloat required for a return link.</p>
<p>tl;dr @font-face is <em>AWESOME</em>!</p>
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		<title>By: Choz Cunningham</title>
		<link>http://bluebones.net/2006/10/digital-typography-and-font-face/#comment-6215</link>
		<dc:creator>Choz Cunningham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 08:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluebones.net/2006/10/digital-typography-and-font-face/#comment-6215</guid>
		<description>As a type designer and font developer/vendor, I would love to see a FOSS plug-in to use the @font-face rule in *any* browser. I suspect some interesting pork-belly activity got that yanked in CSS 2.1, and am really surprised that the Mozilla foundation hasn't at least roadmapped it to trump the competitors.

Between OpenType, TrueType, PostScript Type1,2 and 3, MM, AAX, Metafont and SVGFont, there are a lot of potential formats out there today, as well. And all but one are proprietary, which complicates things. To be practical and idealistic I'd pick OT and whatever more typographically-mature Free solution grows from SVGFont, if any.

Caching and sandboxing the font data is a relatively simple task. However, it would be a lot more work than one might first imagine to create an internal (not os's resources-dependent) system that would do everything required to place the glyphs (visual representations of the letters) in the right way, respecting the font's security flags, scaling tables, kernings (individuals, classes and tables!), substitutions, contextual alternates, and all those other modern font goodies. Those things are usually still done for other applications (even when they use their "own" fonts), in part by the OS.

Choz Cunningham
!Exclamachine Type Foundry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a type designer and font developer/vendor, I would love to see a FOSS plug-in to use the @font-face rule in *any* browser. I suspect some interesting pork-belly activity got that yanked in CSS 2.1, and am really surprised that the Mozilla foundation hasn&#8217;t at least roadmapped it to trump the competitors.</p>
<p>Between OpenType, TrueType, PostScript Type1,2 and 3, MM, AAX, Metafont and SVGFont, there are a lot of potential formats out there today, as well. And all but one are proprietary, which complicates things. To be practical and idealistic I&#8217;d pick OT and whatever more typographically-mature Free solution grows from SVGFont, if any.</p>
<p>Caching and sandboxing the font data is a relatively simple task. However, it would be a lot more work than one might first imagine to create an internal (not os&#8217;s resources-dependent) system that would do everything required to place the glyphs (visual representations of the letters) in the right way, respecting the font&#8217;s security flags, scaling tables, kernings (individuals, classes and tables!), substitutions, contextual alternates, and all those other modern font goodies. Those things are usually still done for other applications (even when they use their &#8220;own&#8221; fonts), in part by the OS.</p>
<p>Choz Cunningham<br />
!Exclamachine Type Foundry</p>
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		<title>By: Bjarki M. Karlsson</title>
		<link>http://bluebones.net/2006/10/digital-typography-and-font-face/#comment-5980</link>
		<dc:creator>Bjarki M. Karlsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluebones.net/2006/10/digital-typography-and-font-face/#comment-5980</guid>
		<description>T.D. Baker is ritght.  Actually, this is how IE handles EOT files today.  Furthermore, this is the only legal option for fornt which allow embedding but not free distribution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T.D. Baker is ritght.  Actually, this is how IE handles EOT files today.  Furthermore, this is the only legal option for fornt which allow embedding but not free distribution.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas David Baker</title>
		<link>http://bluebones.net/2006/10/digital-typography-and-font-face/#comment-3555</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas David Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Dec 2006 09:24:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluebones.net/2006/10/digital-typography-and-font-face/#comment-3555</guid>
		<description>It could just treat fonts like it treats images.  Store them in the cache and delete them when it starts to run out of room.  A font doesn't have to be installed system-wide to be used by a single application, just to be accessed by all the others (which, as you say, may be undesirable).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It could just treat fonts like it treats images.  Store them in the cache and delete them when it starts to run out of room.  A font doesn&#8217;t have to be installed system-wide to be used by a single application, just to be accessed by all the others (which, as you say, may be undesirable).</p>
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		<title>By: Tiff Leek</title>
		<link>http://bluebones.net/2006/10/digital-typography-and-font-face/#comment-3553</link>
		<dc:creator>Tiff Leek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Dec 2006 07:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluebones.net/2006/10/digital-typography-and-font-face/#comment-3553</guid>
		<description>Security and patent implications aside, I think Kurt's point regarding the system choking on a font overload has got to be a biggie.  As a designer I have a lot of fonts on my system, and in the past I have had problems with my system crapping out because there were toooo many.  Just imagine how many there could be if @font-face was implemented - and how would you control that?  The fonts directory on windows eg is a system folder - 'delete offline content'?? Ooh I don't think so..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Security and patent implications aside, I think Kurt&#8217;s point regarding the system choking on a font overload has got to be a biggie.  As a designer I have a lot of fonts on my system, and in the past I have had problems with my system crapping out because there were toooo many.  Just imagine how many there could be if @font-face was implemented - and how would you control that?  The fonts directory on windows eg is a system folder - &#8216;delete offline content&#8217;?? Ooh I don&#8217;t think so..</p>
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		<title>By: evan</title>
		<link>http://bluebones.net/2006/10/digital-typography-and-font-face/#comment-2429</link>
		<dc:creator>evan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2006 02:24:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluebones.net/2006/10/digital-typography-and-font-face/#comment-2429</guid>
		<description>Kirit is right, because of kerning and unusual things like that fonts are more than just vector images, but contain little executable subroutines. That said, there is no reason that these difficulties can't be overcome. Flash, java, etc. are also executable. The operating system just needs to sandbox them. 

I don't think there's an IP issue. Fonts could be stored in the browser cache and not installed generally to the system -- this method has worked for everything else copyrighted on the web. 

Eventually it will happen, but when, I have no idea. I bet support could be hijacked into existing browsers via plugins you only need to install one time (like the Flash player).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kirit is right, because of kerning and unusual things like that fonts are more than just vector images, but contain little executable subroutines. That said, there is no reason that these difficulties can&#8217;t be overcome. Flash, java, etc. are also executable. The operating system just needs to sandbox them. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s an IP issue. Fonts could be stored in the browser cache and not installed generally to the system &#8212; this method has worked for everything else copyrighted on the web. </p>
<p>Eventually it will happen, but when, I have no idea. I bet support could be hijacked into existing browsers via plugins you only need to install one time (like the Flash player).</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas David Baker</title>
		<link>http://bluebones.net/2006/10/digital-typography-and-font-face/#comment-2426</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas David Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Oct 2006 11:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluebones.net/2006/10/digital-typography-and-font-face/#comment-2426</guid>
		<description>I don't know much about sIFR but I think it is true to say that sIFR is a hack.  It requires flash and javascript that is turned on.  It is not part of any standard.  You can't put your body text into a particular font using sIFR (I don't think), only headings.  This would be a much better solution as I'm sure the authors of sIFR would agree.  They only use sIFR because it works now not because it is The Right Thing(tm).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know much about sIFR but I think it is true to say that sIFR is a hack.  It requires flash and javascript that is turned on.  It is not part of any standard.  You can&#8217;t put your body text into a particular font using sIFR (I don&#8217;t think), only headings.  This would be a much better solution as I&#8217;m sure the authors of sIFR would agree.  They only use sIFR because it works now not because it is The Right Thing(tm).</p>
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		<title>By: Edward O'Connor</title>
		<link>http://bluebones.net/2006/10/digital-typography-and-font-face/#comment-2416</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward O'Connor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 18:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluebones.net/2006/10/digital-typography-and-font-face/#comment-2416</guid>
		<description>Why not use sIFR?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not use sIFR?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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